Q - How much does it cost to ship a chicken?

A - A LOT for most people's budget.

Economy Nests - fit 2 of the roos each box

First of all, contact UPS or Fed Ex to ensure that you will be allowed to ship the animal you want.

USPS  ONLY ships birds by express mail and might require you to prearrange with the expediting shipping office and get a number. So you are way better off to check with them before you show up at the post office. Also, make sure to alert the receiving post office.

USPS will ONLY ship in approved boxes. I used Horizons and for small numbers of boxes, I got my boxes here: Matthews Oak Ridge Farm Boxes For Shipping Gamebirds, Waterfowl, Poultry, Chickens, & Pigeons 

I wanted to ship 9 month old roosters. The trip was from California to Texas.

BOXES: I paid 64 dollars plus change for 2 economy boxes ( Economy nests $16.95 each plus S&H) and 2 single boxes ($ 1 to 14- $6.10 each plus S&H). That included the cheapest available shipping rate.

The economy boxes are said to weigh about  2.5 lbs each and 1.5 lbs the single, plus 1/2 - 1 lbs for straw and a few apple slices.

Don't get fooled by the "weight does not matter up to 70 lbs" FLAT rate express shipping. The dimensions of the boxes DO NOT qualify for that rate.

These here are the single bird boxes. The roosters were able to turn in them, but 2 would NOT have fit - and the box would have been too heavy.  The single boxes have a 10 lb limit written on the outside of the box.

Shipping cost at the post office in January and March of 2013:

economy box with 2 birds 13 lbs 9 oz -> $ 97.40 at the post office plus $16.95 for the box and what it cost to get the box shipped

economy box with 2 birds 11 lbs 14 oz -> $ 89.85  plus $ 16.95 for the box and what it cost to get the box shipped.

single bird total weight - 6 lbs 10.9 oz -> $ 66.05 at the post office plus $ 6.10 for the box and what it cost to get the box shipped.

single bird total weight - 5 lbs 15 oz -> $ 60.45 at the post office plus $ 6.10 for the box and what it cost to get the box shipped.


As you can see, it seems to be a little cheaper to ship more than one bird at once. If I did this regularly - I would be crazy or rich....and if i were rich, I'd have a property where I could keep the roos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOW DID EXPRESS MAIL DO?

They guaranteed delivery within 48 hours - though it is supposed to be overnight. For best chances, I was told to get there early enough to get the birds out with the first pick-up. The receiving party contacted the regional post office and drove over an hour to pick up the birds THE NEXT DAY .... so that went really well. If they had not done that, it might have taken the other day ...don't know.


What about NPIP - the national poultry improvement program certification?

I did without, but I did include the NPIP from the facility I originally got the birds from, and the date on that was April 2012, so that was within the year.  Some states (3 I read) have very strict criteria, the one I was shipping to was not on that list. Apparently the USPS and the states are not at this time enforcing the "you must have a health certificate or NPIP certificate with your birds" coming into the state or else all that strictly.
As I said, I included a copy of their original NPIP and added a statement as to their health, just in case.

If you sell & ship birds professionally or cross state lines for show regularly ...get informed or certified. One cautionary note though: Just because someone is NPIP certified does not mean they have healthy birds in terms of lice or mites or coccidiosis etc. Also, the certificate is only valid for 1 year.

I was just trying to re-home my beautiful roosters to a home where they potentially may live a good rooster life.

I shipped 6 and as you can see, for the price I could have gotten materials to build a dividable coop with it for them....and I was willing to build one or 2. Alas, that would not have handled the crowing and the intolerant neighbor in this agriculturally zoned area. I really think they should move into a retirement community, where surly no one is allowed to make a peep to disturb the peace.

But I don't own the property....and I am happy that some of my best and most precious, beautiful  and loved roos found a home and that I could pay to send them there. The one on the right: that is "Big Boy" - the sweetness of my flock. He was allowed to bring the Splash Blue Andalusian - who would otherwise have been culled.  But I do miss him ....

The recipient was willing to pay a (smaller) part of the cost, paying for the boxes basically, but connecting over the internet and not knowing folks it helps to feel that they didn't just want free birds for their dinner table and they sent some pictures of them in their new home. I thank them for that - and I feel that they will do good with the birds and wish them the very best with all those roos :)

Now you want to know the real price of eggs? - PRICELESS

3 of "my" roos in their new coop-home. Thanks to the folks in Texas - I hope it all works out.

Why Natural Chicken Keeping is an oxymoron - and still a good thing to do

I got chickens - and I wanted to raise them naturally, allowing them their chickenness - doing what chickens do - and without man-made chemicals or GMO seeds in their food - for their optimal health and chicken happiness.

And then I found out: there is no way of natural chicken keeping, not in the true meaning of the word "natural".

"Natural" and "Keeping" are essentially not compatible - if you consider natural being a state where is bird is free to be a bird the way nature intended.

Omnivorous natural chickens foraging for food do not depend on supplemental high protein feed because they were not bred as layers to lay eggs all year long. They raise a clutch of chicks a year in the spring.
Roosters are expressing their territorial nature without having been bred for extra aggressiveness for used in cock fighting.  They are not killed for any reason other than natural.
Nature does the culling through providing the weak and old as well as a certain number of young as food to predators.

So - already, even in the most "natural" of circumstances, any "keeping" of chickens is already removed from natural. - it is an oxymoron.

So what is the potential chicken enthusiast to do?

The reason natural chicken keeping is nonetheless something  to promote is because it is leading to healthy happy chicken lives as close to natural as possible. The extremes of abuse and suffering chickens are dealt at the hands of man in the commercial slavery they are being kept...for money and greed - is horrible.  But that is another blog post.

The vegans have a certain stance: it is never ethically ok to enslave a sentient being for one's own purpose. The question: Is it EVER ok to keep captive a chicken or any other animal captive for one's own purpose, whether for one's pleasure, entertainment, research, food or garden help? Their answer is NO.

But hey - what if the chickens as a species felt it was a good deal - because look at the way they got around to spread all over the world - for the price of  providing food for those who keep them...and how many more of them got to experience life on earth than would otherwise never had a chance to.

Was there really never a chicken that would have chosen human's company for some extra free food and shelter from predators? 

I can't know for sure - but I DO make this stand here:

IF you decide to keep chickens - don't close your eyes  and heart to the fact that if you order female chicks from a sexed run so you can enjoy healthy eggs from happy chickens - the male brothers of your beloved birds got chopped up alive or suffocated to death.

IF you keep chickens, give them a good life in a natural environment, which means enough space, outside foraging time so they can scratch and peck and dust bathe and keep themselves and the flock healthy. When it comes time to cull any roosters of your straight run, have a beautiful space prepared and learn to do it humanely.
You'll have healthy happy birds, a peaceful transition for any you need to kill - and you'll be able to sleep better if you have a conscience.

Don't get fooled or lulled by words like "culling" or "harvesting", it is the taking of a life, no matter what you call it.It might get easier - but it may never be easy.

Be aware that "extra roosters" don't have ANY rights in human society anywhere. In some cases ANY rooster is "extra".

We are taught to accept car horns, boombox music, sirens at all hours of the night and blasting advertisement as background noise, but the "natural" rooster song is dealt the blow of death as it stands today.

Commercial chicken keeping as was developed in the last century is not worthy being called anything other than than barbaric,  and is harmful on many many levels. ...but such is many man's greed and immorality.

And I do understand that there are "humans" who don't think anything of it to torture and abuse chickens in that way, who see nothing wrong with it their entire lives.. - and I do wonder also if they do have an individual soul...or what section of the universe they come from - or rather - where I come from that is bothers me that much.

How to deal with roosters

This is a bit lengthy and originated from a conversation over the internet. It does contain examples for certain behaviors of some of my roosters. If you plan to raise roosters - you might find it helpful.

When dealing with roosters, a lot has been written about rooster to rooster aggression and rooster to human aggression. This post is more focused on  the rooster to human relationship. I wanted my roosters friendly towards me at all times - at the very least, I did not want to look over my shoulder walking in chickenland.
Given my current experience, if you have enough space and females, and tolerant neighbors, you can keep a LOT of roosters without much if any trouble.

Rooster behavior varies with breed/genetics, age, season, absence or presence of females, food supply, living space and conditions, time of day,  flock dynamic and how they are treated.

I tip ahead of time: figure 1 rooster per 7-12 hens - if you have several more roosters, you might want to consider a rooster pen with a separate pop door to a rooster area - no later that 3 1/2 months. Some roos mature early, some only a few months later. It is not that the roosters are a problem with you or each other - it is difficult on the hens to have so many on them, especially as the pullets don't mature all on the same day and the few that mature early have to bear them all.

I think roosters are killed for space, noise and because they do not lay eggs and cost money to feed and not all of them are needed to raise chicks or for flock protection, so they can be food. They need not be killed for aggression, but that takes a certain way to raise them.

Jumping ahead:

There are 2 ways to see ourselves with roosters that I find acceptable to me and work with because it means never to fight with them or hurt them:

Both ways do require flock/rooster awareness and observation.

1 – we are humans and not chickens, let alone  roosters that need to fight and they learn to see us as a benign presence. We don't need to fight them because we don't antagonize them or treat them as roosters competitors – but give them the respect and space that a rooster needs - and walking in "chicken Tai-Chi".

2 – we need to be like top roosters to them – but – we don't have to accomplish that by fighting them...but at the first sign of them trying to assert dominance, we are either steady, ie just stay put - or ward them off with a step or two towards them. Some folks use a stick as an extended arm. We keep them at a distance and don't try to make them pets. Also, isolation can be tried. They tend to be much more demure upon re-rentering a flock after a day or 2 in a cage or crate. Picking them up and releasing them when calm is another way to getting them used to us not being a threat.

Since I also wanted friendly roosters who also come to me for treats …. this was going to be a balance game.


In  9 months I raised 32 roos of 6 different breeds (Sicilian buttercups, Egyptian Fayoumi, Blue Andalusian, Buff Catalana and Buff Minorca, Golden Polish) and 21 hens in a pretty small area - ...and here are some things regarding behavior I have learned so far (no experience yet with broody hens, I hear they get pretty feisty and their peck hurts a lot).

 

General things to remember about chickens and roosters - based on observation and experience and because it has worked very well. All my roosters turned out friendly and all come for treats.

0 – chickens are amazing and can open your heart - AND – always remember, they are chickens and will act according to their programming and depending on genetics, season, temperament, hormones and circumstances ...there can be surprises....never take it personally.

1 – beaks and feet - as weather gets warm, I like to wear just tank tops and sandals ...but ...when in the chicken world...that does not work for my skin because their little feet are no longer soft baby feet. Even them innocently flying on my bare shoulders I have gotten scratched bloody and still have the scars from that. Also, I wear a cap when I spend time with them at all, especially if I sit or crouch ...because them landing on my head ...hurts like hell since they got bigger than the little peeps they were. -> be aware of their feet on your skin. Chickens have a lot of sharpness in their beaks ..your eyes are NOT safe around them ...be aware. Gums are not as critical, but it DOES hurt when they go for your teeth.

2 - bending down, sitting or being in a crouched position appears to be an invitation to fly on you ...no matter what the intention.

3 – better to not show bare skin on lower legs unless you can say you know all your roosters so well that they would NEVER try to hit you ….I don't think I can ever be that sure …..mating season is just starting and who knows what will happen this year and with this combination of birds.

4 – talking to the rooster now: no matter how friendly things get, you are a chicken – and/or rooster and hormones can make you act weird and a little out of control. I shall never forget that. (see stories below). Talking to some pullets:  If you are hungry and looking for treats – your peck can draw blood (they have not yet with me ...but I have no doubt they could) Seeing teeth seems to be a MAJOR invitation to try to go for them with results in my lips or gums experiencing some searing pain ….that I have experienced.

5 - treats will go a LOOOONG way to friendly relations (which is what I want) with hens and roos. To a point. And treats do not have to be hand-fed. You can throw them.

6 – I am unwilling to have to look over my shoulder when entering any area that is inhabited by chickens.

If there is a problem, you (chicken) have about 2 - 3 weeks to change before I make arrangements for you to be someone's dinner, and I tell you so. I give you time because I know hormones seem to spike and you have seem trouble with your behavior.

Me, I will do whatever I know so the behavior that is unacceptable stops....I won't antagonize you and give you more space, might pick you up or chase you back a few steps.

If we can't live together and if I can't find a home – I will arrange for you a death that is as humane as possible. (cone, bleeding out without cutting windpipe in our case)

7 – I want my roos to come for treats – and I want them to respect me at all times. - so i offered treats from day 1, I always move in what I now call "Chicken tai-chi" Chickens see twice as fast compared to us. Even walking normally is fast to them. Slow down!!!!!!!!.

8 – When I see you (roo of any age) doing that "shoulder- wing thing", I know it is not a dance for me - I might give you more space, stay put or sometimes I will back away, but I will never get angry. I know giving you treats in your face at that time works for some of you, but not all of you all the time. So if you don't stop ...I will move towards you if you start following me with intent to chase or worse after I give you some space ...and might point my finger at you, say eh-eh-eh e - in a low growly voice...and might keep going towards you until you back off. If needed, you will be chased.

9 – to the roos: if you come AT me as if you owned the place a second time ...I stand my ground, be tall and point my arm and finger in your direction. I am prepared with my bamboo stick and, wearing proper footwear, step towards you ...and if you actually jump me a second time ….I will start chasing you ...one step at a time but across the field if needed. If I need to, I will touch your fluffy butt ...and I know you will jump each time and back of because you don't like that.

I use a stick as my extended arm.

10 – to the roos: I will never feed you treats before I have thrown some to the hens. (unless of course there are only roos around)

11 – if I catch you treating others in a way not acceptable, I will pick you up from them and put you in a holding place – that help you cool you down.

12 - I do break up some fights or mounting of hens when it is happening right where I am. At times I just pick them off and carry them elsewhere. If I am worried about really damage to another chicken, I separate them. But no matter what, they will work things out.

13 - It seems that whoever is lowest on pecking order ….is looking for someone lower if they can.... you don't want that to be you.

Generally: roosters are better to keep a little distance with. It is good for them to know who is in charge (you) – at the same time, when you throw treats, they can offer them to the hens and finally eat some too. Pick them up from the roost periodically and set them back down.

I think Big Boy (the sweetest rooster I will ever know in this life) is really different – but then ...he too is only 9 months old and he was SOOOO friendly from day 1. I am not sure what the deal is with him.

Regarding Gully, the feisty Egyptian Fayoumi:

Gully, an Egyptian Fayoumi,  was originally with the orchard roos at 4 months when I separated my first straight run (17 roos was just too much for the 9 pullets) but kept traveling around to the mixed flock field. I never had a problems with him and thought he was the best. He was a curious smart little guy, greeting me when I came into the garden. He eventually self integrated into that mixed flock and I let him, even though they did not need any more males there. One day ..i think he was almost 6 months, I walked into the mixed flock field and I felt a thud against my leg from behind. I didn't even know what it was, but when I looked around, there he was, Gully looking at me …...( a little shocked & disappointed was I) ...but then nothing else happened for a couple of days but then I say he was following me kind of with his chest out ...I used treats and that worked but he was still following me …. then he did that thing again where he hit my lower legs ...well, that is when I started turning around earlier and stepped towards him, I never had to use the stick on him, ...only chased him halfway across the field a couple of times and that was it. After that, he behaved like a charm the rest of the time here. But mating season had not yet started and it was too cold to sit about in the field or do weeding.

i remembered 1 thing that i don't know how it plays into how he is is acting. At the end of september 2012, the folks here got 2 young aussies that were not very socialized. i was helping them to handle the dogs.  the property at the time was not fenced and the only "dog" yard were they could run was next to the chicken-gardenfield.

gully had figured out how he could squeeze through the fence opening in the fence that separates the chicken and the general/dog area (i had used some old horse fencing prior to getting chickens not realizing that some of the chickens would be small enough to be able to get though it ...and in fact wanted to go through it.) anyway ..that fence didn't keep gully from making his rounds.

sometime in october, one of the dogs almost got him (only by the wingtip, and no physical injury, but it was still scary) when he was in the dog yard.

so a couple of weeks later when i took the other dog there. i made sure gully was not in the dog yard. he was on the other side of the fence....before i let the dog  loose i noticed gully had gone through the fence and was charging the dog ...who was as surprised as me...i did not let them fight but left with the dog. i seemed like gully would have won ....meaning the dog was stopped from advancing and might have retreated.

gully didn't do his jumping on my leg until after that. i don't know if or how it played a role in setting something up in a confrontational way though. even when i stand my ground with other roos if i need to, i try to never let it come to a real confrontation.  anyway, just a little piece of info.

Orchard roos adolescent behavior:

several of them, maybe all – did that wing thing with me, it is not a dance, it is trying to see who is higher in the pecking order - and is is a sign saying: hey, you are too close ...I live here. If you can - give them space, back up a little and go around to where you were headed. If I had to change the water, I stand my ground and wing them right back, if needed, using my arms, make myself look big and confident, these days not waiting till it gets worse. .. If they actually follow me and come at me, which only happened twice,  I will pretend to chase them off if need be. One of them I had to chase and do the "touch your butt with the stick thing" with because he was coming at me. He jumped a few times. He was some punk, but it worked. What also works is picking them up and holding them till calm. The problem is: I'd have had to chase them for that and that sort of was beside the point then. The picking up and holding them and putting them back down works best off and onto the roost.

Misbehaving roos: 

Roosters misbehaving with the pullets or each other: I pick them up and carry them off, break up any fights happening right in front of me. Several of them spend a day in what used to be the brooder box. I would also isolate them for a day and then let them back with the flock. Usually their behavior is much better, though you can't really keep them from working out the pecking order. This is when it helps to just not be there for a while ...and also provide enough food that fighting over food need not to be the case.

The Buff Catalana roo territorial phase:

The buff catalanas, bigger than any of my other roos, where hitting adolescence at 4 months recently. Soon after, the main dude with all the roos, started going after me trying to prevent me from going into their area to feed them. He only tried that twice because I chased him right back which only took a couple of steps towards him a couple of times at which point he kept his distance...and I had to work with treats to even have him come close again – that took about 2 weeks, but he never gave me any problem again.

One of them, (I have 3 there) in the mixed flock, tried to chase me out of the coop one evening about 2 weeks ago ...well, I didn't go for that and chased him out instead ...no more problems since then. Again, it does not take more than a couple of steps. They all come for treats, but generally, I do not mind them staying a bit away, be respectful of me without being fearful and they are always the last to get treats, but they do get them and come for them. They are more cautious of the other roo in their group than me.

Roosters are males and they are gonna do what roosters do.

Another thing I do is to go into the coop and touch them while roosting, mostly because most of them some day I need to pick up and put into a crate to get brought to they place of culling and I don't want them to get all freaked out. I have only recently started to pick the chickens up (other than when they were babies) just in case I need to treat them for some medical thing some day.

My current head roo of the flock also tried to “wing” me once, a while back – a couple of steps towards him was all he needed. Of course,, houdini as he is, iI plucked him off the roost a bunch of times to carry him to the rooster only roost, until one day I just let him stay...he has been behaving perfectly.

Secret is – always stay calm, and don't wait for it to get worse. Either modfy your behavior to give them more space, or stand your ground, and  chase them a couple of steps or touch their butt with your little stick. I have never had to yell, really run-chase or actually hit a rooster - and I don't ever want to. I do not want to have an actual fight, and remember, do not take it personally when your sweet roo suddenly remembers his protective duties and starts coming after you marching into "his" territory. He is just wanting to protect his flock.

Their claws really hurt bare skin, even if they just want to sit on you. Their beaks can cause pain in no time just from pecking curiosity.

Just as an example on what hormones can do:

one almost 3 months old roo was chasing a hen relentlessly one evening ….finally stopped when he was roosting. Then, the next day ...whenever his feet hit the ground he hysterically ran around ...he literally could not stop until went hiding under something all out of breath and freaked out, then it started all over. I finally put him in the coop on a roost ...this went on for 3 days ….i even did one of those online vet things...(waste of money) to see if he had some kind of disease.

I had to hand feed him and give him water in a syringe for 3 days. Then, after 3 days, he would still run around as soon as his feet touched the ground but could make himself stop when there were other chickens pecking around....he still spent a lot of time on the roost. It took a few more days till he was all back to normal ….no problem since.
Incidentally, that night before he had this problem there also was a thunderstorm. So it might have added to his "flighty" behavior.

Anyway - I hope this helped. It has worked well for me. Even the golden polish are sweet, but unfortunately they can't stop chasing the buttercups, especially one of them seems to be popular with EVERYONE. In any case, I am just gonna spoil them till they have to go - it is only a few more days.

More on rooster management

Since I found that isolating them seems to also help (tried that with the polish and way back once with who is now the top roos with the flock), if I were in your situation with him having jumped on me and he misbehaved towards me again and I didn't want to get into chasing or more confrontation to ward him off, I might pick Gully up from the roost or a pullet he is topping and carry him to a box or little coop to put him by himself, give him food and water there and keep him overnight and then let him out to join the others late morning...as I call them all over to throw out food.

Also – I generally don't let them hop on me uninvited. - and my flock – the pullets mostly though) sees a sitting position (I hand-feed treats that way) or extended/lifted arm as an invitation to fly on it or me.

As best as I can tell, there are 2 ways to see ourselves with roosters that I accept and work with because it means never to fight with them or hurt them.
Both ways do require flock/rooster awareness and observation.

1 – we are humans and not roosters and they learn to see us as a benign presence, we don't need to fight them because we don't antagonize them and treat them as roosters competitors – giving them the respect and space that a rooster needs - and walking in "chicken Tai-Chi"

2 – we need to be like top roosters to them – but – we don't have to accomplish that by fighting them...but at the first sign of them trying to assert dominance, we are either steady, ie just stay put - or ward them off with a step or two towards them. Some folks use a stick as an extended arm. We keep them at a distance and don't try to make them pets. Also, isolation can be tried. They tend to be much more demure upon re-rentering a flock after a day or 2 in a cage or crate. Picking them up and releasing them when calm is another way to getting them used to us not being a threat.

Since I also wanted friendly roosters who also come to me for treats …. this was going to be a balance game.

If the methods do not work and there is a rooster that becomes more and more aggressive – he needs to find another home, one way or another....Somehow I would take that to mean that whatever I do or did, was not working fior this particular rooster. I would not want to breed him with those characteristics - unless I had huge acreage where he was  truly needed  him to protect his flock.

Before I ever go any chickens, got my first impression on how to deal with roosters from reading Harvey Ussery's book: The Small Scale Poultry Flock. Best single book on chicken keeping I can imagine, though I have much to learn on culling if I really wanted to breed chickens. (I don't want to kill those beautiful birds, so …).

What I took from him in regards to rooster management was

1 – You are not a chicken. You are not a rooster. You have other options. You do not need to fight.

2 – Respect the birds and the space they live in and work with it - and with them, not against them.

3 – treats go a long way for amicable relations with your roosters. It confuses them ..no rooster would do that to another rooster that would threaten him.

4 – Don't have pet roosters

5 – Be aware of what your birds are doing.

This looked like this in my situation:

My orchard roos were hanging out in the back by the orchard (as opposed to the front of the coop garden field area. When I had to pass by the area to another part of the garden, I noticed a couple of them would start approaching and doing that “wing thing” – I would just give them a little more space and be on my way and all was well.

When I came in with the bag of kitchen scraps – they might start the same way, but then, hearing my chicky ckicky and seeing me emptying the bag ...they soon forgot about their territoriality and came closer looking for titbits.

The water station was in the middle of their space and I would have to enter it (because I usually didn't think of filling up the water before I let them out..:) i'd say my “it's okaaayyy chicky”… so when they came close to me doing “the wing thing”, I would stay put or do my chickchikchik ...and throw them or hand-feed them some choice treats and all was well. I just never had a problem and over time ...they didn't seem to mind my doing what I had to do there.

Maybe it was because they got used to it – maybe it really is a challenge for them when their hormones spike?? Maybe I saw be as a on threat?

On the coop side this meant: I get the eggs after the hens leave and the roosters are not around.

I wait to dump new leaves onto the coop floor when they are out in the field because big bags, especially the black ones, FREAKS THEM OUT, even if I walk very slowly, they are afraid. Once I showed up with a big black bag at the coop door and most of the buffs where still there ...they totally freaked and would not come near me for a day. So since the kitchen scraps usually show up in white bags...i now use white if I can or make sure they are elsewhere if I have a big black bag with leaves. This is what I mean by respect their space. I make some adjustment and all is well.

So the respect, giving them space & treats worked well in general.

But then there was Gully who hit my lower leg one day when I was walking into the garden field not paying any attention to them. Mind you, I had just gone onto the field not paying attention to them at all, just going where I wanted to go. One of the orchard roos made his territory in a walkway area that I needed to traverse to get to the buff roos, and later a couple of those buff cockerels who had thought they established their ruler-ship around their roost box/coop daring me and were not just doing the wing thing but were daring me a little more and the golden polish who started winging me.

I think eventually respect and treats might have worked, but I sort of might have inadvertently antagonized him with the dog incident. I did some more reading and a lot of folks said: make sure you are to top rooster ...hm. Those folks also were all recommending to leave space between you and any roosters and not have them be anything like pets. So I chased him back a couple of times, that worked.

Of the other methods I chose to  – get a stick as the arm extension to pat their fluffy butt and don't be a pushover....chase them If needed.

Again, doing that, there is no need to fight them ....and – always be vigilant.

So that is what I did without being angry, aggressive and very controlled just to make it clear that some behavior would not be tolerated.

That worked.

Afterwards I will call the flock over and trow some treats.

PICKING THEM UP - without hurting them. I also got into the habit of picking them up off hens that complained if I was right there. One of them, who got himself into the coop over and over from the rooster side  – I picked him up and carried him back to his own roost area until one day I just just let him be with the flock ...and he NEVER gave me any problem since he is with the hens and he is the head roo now. While I can't prove anything ...it seems to help with the respect thing from their side.

I also continued (and never stopped) to call the flock over and give the best treats when approaching and entering their space. It worked really well and I did not have problems.

The flock absolutely loves it when I come with a spade and start digging around in their field ...in fact, they sometimes hop on the shovels (2 pullets) – they are loving the insects/worms

Keep in mind that my cockerels are now 5 – 9 months old and do not yet have spurs to speak of and mating season was yet to come.

Well, mating season is here and they are a lot more active with the pullets, but I still don't have any problems with them. I still had 5 roos with 21 pullets, the 2 Golden Polish and 12 bachelors.

The bachelor roosters are not giving me a problem. The 2 golden polish are also not a problem ...they approach me only to see if I have treats for them....but in the past, when one of them would “wing” me ...I just stepped towards him till he walked away and after a few moments called him with the “chikchik” sound gave him some treats or threw them in the direction I wanted him to go.

My philosophy is to do the best for them ….even if that means they are doing the rooster thing and are not like pets. Remember, Gully went against a dog that had come into “his” area ….. and I thought: he'd give his life to defend the flock. At the same time, I did have to assert myself by catching him in his approach and not letting him jump on me. It is a fine balance because you don't want to antagonize them and set up a rooster/rooster type situation between you and them.

I'm sure there is more to learn as they get older - or rather, there would be - because I have to get rid of them in the next couple of weeks - all but maybe 1 or 2. But that is another story.

All I can say is: the more land you have the better and if you own it,  you have a say in what happens, and just because you are zoned fully agricultural does not mean the neighbors won't call animal control for rooster noise...even though there was not a neighbor problem before.

Some were meant to be culled by someone who eats them, but in the end, that is not the reason they will be killed.

They will be killed because of noise complaints even in a fully agriculturally zoned area, NOT because any of them were aggressive.

I was able to re-home a total of  8 of my roosters to far - and time is running out for the rest of them. The re-homed roos adjusted very quickly and well to they new surroundings. One of my re-homed roos was the sweetness of my flock - he was always different - my buttercup Big Boy.
If you are thinking of re-homing roosters via shipping roosters - here is a blog on what it does cost etc.

Big Boy - a Sicilian Buttercup - sweetness of my flock

My sweet "Big Boy" buttercup. He is so special - I decided to make him his own page, in part to deal with having to send him off. For those who follow my page on facebook, you know he arrived in Texas March 5, 2013. I miss his presence - but it was the best solution.

In May of 2012, I got my first chickens, a straight run of assorted light chickens from Sandhill preservation. The reason for the assorted was - fun surprise and the Buff Catalanas I had ordered were not available then and only got sent after the heat wave - in September. With an assorted run, you don't now what they will send you beforehand, but I loved what I got:
11 Blue Andalusians, 6 Sicilian Buttercups, 6 Egyptian Fayoumis and 4 Golden Polish. I lost 1 after pasting, and the rest turned out to be: 17 males, 9 females, not exactly the ratio of 50/50, and the person who said they were going to take my males (since they eat them) backed out...so I had to deal with all the roosters.

The pro side of raising that many roosters was: I got to know a lot of roosters and fell in love with them. One of them was especially sweet - a Sicilian Buttercup who I named "Big Boy" as he was the first of the  Buttercups to mature.

From day 1 he would want to sit on my shoulder, he was never aggressive to me or other chickens, he never even showed me the "wing thing".  He came running when he saw me, he was good with the baby buff catalanas, he got along. So so docile - iI was saying: he does not have much "roostesterone". He was in charge for a while, but then one day his brother took over and that was the phase he got so relentlessly chased that I held him back with the 3 buttercup pullets, who liked him but no other roo.

9 months old

The mixed flock on the hugelkultur

Big Boy and his Blue Andalusian buddy a roosting time

He remained so sweet always ...and on his last day here with me, before going in to roost the last time, I sat in the field and he hopped on my arm and we sat head to head for a while - me telling him a few things, preening him and him clucking. I will never forget it. It was amazing.

Big Boy - going to roost here the last time - he was never far for
 too long from the black pullet there -BeeBee

He liked the buttercup pullets, but his best girl was a black Blue Andalusian, and he was never far from her for long.

Why did I give him up: because the property owners were afraid of a complaining neighbor, even though we are in a fully agricultural neighborhood. I may keep 1 or 2 roosters, so since Big Boy had a welcoming home in Texas - I let him go so another can live.  His brother was already there. He went to the post office Monday, March 4 and gotto his new home the next day.

He was THE BIG sweetness of my flock

May he live a long happy rooster life.

In general: all the Sicilian Buttercups turned out VERY sweet. The pullets also are extremely sweet.

I would get buttercups again anytime.

Why organic and what is beyond organic?

In very short

Beyond organic is way beyond the regualtions that the us governmentt requires to get the "organic" stamp of approval.

In beyond organic gardening and animal keeping - you do so with deep respect and gratitude to the plants and animals. In this case, the chickens all deserve a chicken-worthy life - no matter what happens to them down the line. Their food is not contaminated with pesticides or GMO and they get to be outside on the fields/garden.

• I want true organic eggs from chicken who have been foraging around outside, not so called free range which means "access" to the outside. I will add a link to what it actually means in the commercial world to get organic eggs.

• b - I want to give the males at least somewhat of a life on this planet as chickens - not kill them right away at birth. Ethically, that is what I believe in - and it is beyond organic.

• c - those birds are loved, seen and given the space they need to express their "chicken-ness". This is part of the deal for me -  they MUST be respected and treated well.

And so that is beyond organic. For as long as I can, I will treat the animals in my care according to their needs.

Here is some of the journey to this:

An opportunity presented itself to work a small part of someone's garden and I got permission to have chickens there too. My initital thoughts about that was: have free range garden chickens and eggs that lay eggs, provide fertilizer and help with tilling and pest control - and - I LOVE birds.

My initial helper, and highly recommended - "The Small Scale Poultry Flock" by Harvey Ussery - a wonderful guide on why and how to keep chickens with and for your garden and food.

Because of ethical reasons I became a vegetarian in 2010 (what this video - If Saughter Houses Had Glass Walls) - simply because I could no longer support, by buying meat in any store, the cruelties done to animals. So I was not looking for meat birds either. 
I had read up on organic eggs and chickens from the store and didn't really like what that meant - I was looking for eggs form happy, free range chicken, at least free range enough to find grass and bugs and such things.

Organic: NOWHERE does it say that the animals had a good life - outdoor pastures, humane treatment, less overcrowding.

All that is mostly a myth that people want to believe because most people I know who eat meat  would rather have the animals treated well - and organic does NOT mean that ...wake up everyone. (see more of what organic means a little further on)


So then what chickens should I get? I started researching and reading about which chickens to get for what purpose and climate read.

One of the things I found out - and I never really fully "groked" that before - that because egg laying chicken breeds don't make enough money as meat birds - BILLIONS of 1 day old male chicks are gassed to death, thrown away to suffocate of chopped alive in some kind of huge chicken baby chopper machines. This is so unbelievably inhumane and cruel - so I opted to get straight runs from  Sandhill Conservation. They came recommened as having good healthy egg laying birds - and I have so far found that to be very true.

So I got 54 birds total ...32 of which are male ...all of which as organically fed and partly free range or pastured. The reason it is partly is because I don't have enough partitioned room for all those roosters .... Of the first birds, now 6 months old, there were only 9 females - 17 males. That just does not work. So as may be able to imagine - the conviction to go humane and organic can be costly - costly in time, energy and money. 

I got to know roosters - and I love them.
I got to know pullets - and I love them.

and I had to face some difficulot decisions, and I will write more elsewhere about them.

But my eggs are organic, my birds are organic - and because of all this love, care and energy that went into caring for them they truely are - Beyond Organic.

Organic simply means pesticide free, no GMO, 


The USDA National Organic Program (NOP) defines organic as follows:

Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineering; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.


The USDA has identified for three categories of labeling organic products:

100% Organic: Made with 100% organic ingredients

Organic: Made with at least 95% organic ingredients

Made With Organic Ingredients: Made with a minimum of 70% organic ingredients with strict restrictions on the remaining 30% including no GMOs (genetically modified organisms)

Products with less than 70% organic ingredients may list organically produced ingredients on the side panel of the package, but may not make any organic claims on the front of the package.

NOWHERE does it say that the animals had a good life - outdoor pastures, humane treatment, less overcrowding

All that is mostly a myth that people want to believe because most people I know who eat meat  would rather have the animals treated well - and organic does NOT mean that ...wake up everyone.
Most animals on organic and free-range farms are still transported through all weather extremes and slaughtered in the same manner as animals on factory farms.

How much should you isolate chickens with injuries?

This morning after cleaning up

First of all, checking online and in my book, chickens apparently have astonishing, almost miraculous ability to heal from even grave physical injuries, contrary to actual illness and infection.
So yesterday one of my 10 week old Buff Catalana pullets somehow (and God only knows how) got into the orchard rooster only area. It was calling with the distress chirp and I found it, then it hid and I retrieved it. While it looked ok, I was totally taken aback when it bent its neck: the entire length of neck muscles and other structures lay bare. OMG. I still cannot believe it and even if I took a photo, it would need a big warning for graphic image.

Unbelievably had been running  and chirping though and, once I got it into a medium size dog crate, it took treats eagerly (thank goodness). I added a heat lamp in front of the crate because I had read that optimum temperature for a sick bird is 80-85 degrees. I probably did not get that, but at least it was not THAT cold. Taking her into the house was not an option for me -and - it would have put her in a strange environment and might have stressed her out.

So then it came time to roost for the night and she obviously got stressed out not being able to join the others. I had the crate inside in the coop, but that was not enough. The chicky literally STOOD there all night, at least every time I checked. I felt right about adding some warmth via the heat lamp, safely hung, and I even filled bottles with hot water --- and put it into a sock ...for a warm body substitute. But still I could not help thinking it would rather have roosted with rest of them.

So it got me thinking -  under no circumstances would you want ANY chicken even peck at the injury once, at the same time, stress hinders healing. Birds, at least chickens, are VERY social animals and want to move with and stay with the flock ...otherwise, sooner or later, they get stressed out.

So it made it through the night alive, still taking treats ...... so far so good. I could not bring myself to even look at the atrocious injury.
I didn't apply any salves or creams or dressing and I was not set up for suturing. I didn't know it then, but I didn't need any of that.

The next day, to start with, I decided to keep the 15 Buff Catalanas all in the coop for a while....after letting out the older flock, just to keep the chick company. When i went in at lunchtime, the baby had settled down finally inside the crate and some chickens were lying around the crate, one "sunbathing" in the warmth of the brooder lamp that I had re-hung.

She was even drinking water once I got it all cleaned up

I had brought more treats, high protein and nutrient rich treats it learned to like (eggs, meat), plus crumble dust and very overcooked broccoli and zucchini (for added fluid).

I fed this in front of the crate door and the willingness of the other chickens to really go for the treats certainly helps with food intake. (I actually had to put most of the  treats elsewhere  to keep it somewhat controlled in front of the crate :)

All was well - and little chicky settled down again on a fresh bed of straw. A little later I decided to let the others go outside and into the coop run for a little outing. That was when little chicky got upset, pacing and chirping inside the crate, wanting to join the flock ...... ...so I coaxed a couple of chicks back inside the coop and closed the door. After a littel while, things settled down for the 3 of them.

So: YES, isolate right away for healing so re-injury cannot happen. It seems to be a natural instinct to eliminate obviously injured birds from the flock - and they will literally peck it to death if it acts at all sick or has visible woulds. - and NO,  if possible, don't separate the injured chick from the flock as it will stress out the bird. Extra warmth will also help.

Of course if you chicken is used to being in a crate inside your house, that is a different situation.

If you don't have a dog crate, maybe you have some other box or cage which can at least be partially darkened to help with resting. 

(Illness with risk of contamination may be is a different story, talking just about physical injury) This is my observation, and of course, we all just do the best we can under any given circumstance.

It seems to be though that even if it were to die - it would rather die not alone somewhere. In any case, the time this little chick got upset was when the flock moved on and it could not be with them as it was locked inside the crate. Here it had settled down again, though you can barely see her in there, with one of her flock-mates sunbathing under the brooder light. Keeping my finger crossed, praying and running karma wash orbs for the little girl - I named her Harriet. She still seems to have some trouble breathing - like if you were trying to breathe through a clogged up nose. It is possible that one of the nerves that runs along the neck got injured.

ADDENDUM: She was in there for a few weeks and then afterwards I gradually let her back out ...she was quite out of breath at first, but basically she healed well and got back with the flock after a few weeks. Since the others could always see her, I didn't have to go through a real reintegration, but I did transition by making a separate roost and section in the coop where she roosted for a week with a couple of others before she was free to go where she wanted.

I had another chick that got pecked on the head by a rooster and had a bad blood blister .... she seemed ok after a couple of days of isolation and when I could not longer see the reddish blister - she rejoined the flock.

Baby chicken got hurt

Tonight I am just tired and it is  mainly from an emotional toll. So this may or may not make sense.

She is in there - my attempt to keep her in the coop as well as somewhat warm

I had to go with someone to bring a dog to the vet this afternoon, and I got to the chickens late, not till 4 pm., which really isn't a big deal. Except today when i got into the run, I heard baby chirps from the rooster side of the baby run area wall. There really isn't a way from the pullet babies to get there and I thought one of the baby roos, (and they are all 9 weeks old now) had strayed ...I opened the door to the orchard run and a buff was trying to get through the barrier, then hid. I got it from there, the 4 orchard roos looking on. The baby buff seemed ok, UNTIL she bent her neck .OMG ...all open to the muscles ...the entire neck exposed. So I isolate it in a dog crate inside the coop. I feed it some mesh, eggs and chicken. And it eats with good appetite. She gets chirpy when all her siblings go to roost and she has to stay there. I heat up water, put it in a bottle and that into an old sock ...and put it next to her ...but she wasn't fooled. Later on I decide to dig out the heat lamp thinking it might help  to not be so cold ....despite the light, but it is the red kind. At that time, she eats crumble but I also see that there is some issue with breathing.
I have some antibiotics, but she refuses the overcooked veggie it it on ...
After reading up on things ...if i had the means, suturing and antibiotics might be of benefit, but then, chickens have amazing self healing abilities from physical injury. So here I am, hoping for the best.

But it is taking a toll - as I see myself unable to focus on work I have to do. It won't get done. I don't know which rooster is so rough on the babies, or how she even got out. I got  straight runs with a total of 54 chickens and have 34 be male - that posed a lot of management issues on the time and space.
But getting a sexed run would have meant the baby males had to be killed ...never a chance for a life worth calling it.

I recall: 27 chicks the first run, 1 died at 3 days. (post pasting). Of the 26, 9 are hens, the rest roosters. Of the 8 living in the orchard, 4 got gotten by predators (they were out there early, having roosted in the trees, which they since stopped doing). Of the mixed group, I had to go through deciding who needed to go and then the process of culling them. This was November 20. They were just 6 months old.. HORRIBLE to take the life of such a beautiful creature, but the orchard roos were all chasing the Golden Polish and those 2 in turn were making live difficult for the hens and their brothers. ...all the while just being roosters. My only consolation at this point is: they had a good rooster life, having done what a rooster does, they were seen and loved, served as food for folks who could never afford such a chicken and taught me big lessons. Then One of the baby buff males died ....I think neck injury too, this was about 2 weeks ago - but I don't know who did it. And today this one ...a pullet. She might still make it ...but it is taking a toll.....

It is difficult have so many roosters for the space and for the females. I am by now convinced that given enough space ...and more equitable rooster to hen ratio, that they will all arrange themselves one way or the other.

I don't know how it happened. There were some grey feathers there too ...and non of the orchard roos is grey. If i knew who did it - he'd have to go, but i can't get myself to cull them all ....but maybe that would be better ....?

I just want them to get out in the morning to forage and all get long. Let them out in the morning - feed them. Let them in at roost time - collect some eggs in between. Let them  walk around with me -...I love observing them. I know they don't like to be alone - which is why I put the dog crate inside the coop ...and I will be feeding the young ones right around the dog crate. The plan is to keep them inside the coop for a day....

I don't know why but it affects me so much when they are sick or distressed or seeing them dead - not compatible with being a farmer for sure, but then, I'm a chicken gardener and vegetarian and....


...  it is so hard for me. I LOVE these chickens. I adore them, the way they move and talk and look and I am amazed at their social structure, curiosity, ability to learn. There is a lesson here about the preciousness and uniqueness, about the purpose for each life - 2 or 4 legged, winged or swimming companions. About care and respect for each and every life entrusted to your care.

Because: once you create (as in ordered eggs to be hatched) or take in any animal into your care - you carry the responsibility for its life and owe it a  life that is in accordance with its beingness. Not everyone will agree or understand, for others this is not far enough.

I don't want to force my views on anyone. There is such a wide span between the meat-eaters (and there is a range there too) and the  vegans (with their own range). What I hope all animals get is this:  respectful treatment in life and death - that they are being allowed to live  a good and artengerechtes animal life.

In the meantime - there is a 2 month old Buff Catalana girl in the coop with a bad injury.  Her name is Harriet. It hurts. ...and she does not understand why she can't be up on the roost .... Whether she stays or goes on - I don't want her to suffer. Sending love to you, baby chick.

read the next post for what happens next - I named it: should you isolate chickens with injuries