The male chickens - what to do with roos?

There is something here for all of you: whether you eat meat or are vegan, Buddhist or a hunter. It is about us - us humans and animals in this world together - and this issue is just something that is coming up as I started gardening with chickens.

Cockerels - still getting along

I love my chickens. They are beautiful and happy. They are now 8 1/2 weeks old and at this point, not only the Egyptian fayoumis, but also the buttercups and blue Andalusians have crowed. Most likely they will all be ok together during the summer months, but sooner or later, there will be the issue of 16 males and 10 females - not a viable solution for either one.  Everywhere I read - it really is not an option to keep more than a few roosters, and that is if you have adequate space.

As a functioning homestead and possibly conscientious breeder of chickens, culling would be done so that only the best and healthiest 10% of each mating will make it each year. I don't know what happens to all the rooster in the natural world. I guess some get eaten by predators, the weak don't make it, but  what about the rest? In any case, the fraction of an acre available to me at this time is not gonna support a flock with many roosters.

So, I know a friend who keeps chickens who will take them - most likely to eat them. So when I look at those guys, happy as they are, some of their lives will be short, no matter how many months I manage to keep them here.

So then I think: why do this? But then, if you eat eggs anytime, they are all from hens, and wherever they are, there were roosters that got culled, (just that someone else killed them for you), and most never saw the light of day or got a worm, a grub or had a dustbath. These guys here have it good - they had the chance of experiencing life here on earth, outside, foraging, hanging out and they have even heard music - and I love them and appreciate them. The domestication of chickens  was not a one-sided exploitation, but a mutually beneficial arrangement. They have life because of it -is is just that some of them will need to go - or so everyone says.

I do not eat meat, so that part of why many homesteaders keep chickens is not a reason for me.
But lets face it, I need fertilizer and compost if I am gonna grow vegetables in this soil. Trucking in amendments and fish-meal each year is not really sustainable and not even vegetarian. Since a mayor part of their lives here was meant to do tilling and composting/fertilizing, I would say: if the males can get along, they can all stay. But NOWHERE have I found evidence that more than a couple of roosters will be manageable in  this kind of flock. They fight and hurt, if not kill, each other. Apparently the males can really have a miserable life with other males in the flock. Is it possible that breeding them for a few generations choosing only the non-aggressive males that there will be a time when roosters just work it out and you can keep them all with a minimum footage of space per bird - without any problem? I am tempted to go that route, as most of the predator warding off will be handled by me. But maybe that is how they die in nature: trying to defend the flock? And if I let all of them live from each year, without any predator selection - they there will be too many altogether.

Granted, by entering the domestication, the chickens agreed to a mutually beneficial relationship, and, as a species, they surely prospered much - being fed and protected, they survived everywhere. So culling some humanely and honoring their spirit (and I have seen it done) and allowing them the final gift of nourishing you would be reasonable. They had a good life here - and it is part of their contract.

It just that - I don't want to kill them - unless it really is for pure survival.
I don't want to even feed them other live things, like worms. Even the grass hurts - but that is live on this planet - it literally is ALL alive - just that we attribute a certain sentience to some beings and not others.

Can you see the dilemma though: what to do with all the roosters?
Am I too wimpy, not accepting the give and take reality on this planet, the circle of life and death in nature?


And going vegan may not be the answer. Soy or other mono-cultures are not doing the earth a favor, just as an example. And harvesting huge areas of planted acreage apparently kills a LOT of animals living there too. In addition, anything you have to truck in from far away carries a high environmental price tag. So the answer really is: grow your own, even in a community, grow locally. And for that, you need fertilizer.....and for that, you need animals, and of those, when bred, roughly half will be males.

da capo al fine

and - it is doing something to me - having to deal with this - not sure what the effects will be. It does bring up a larger picture though of live, life on earth, how it all works out in the einsteinian universe and quantum universe.

Right now I am still hoping the roos all stay non-aggressive - but if not, they got to go.

But when they do, they deserve respect, humane treatment and deep gratitude. And this I know they will get from those who have agreed to take them, whether for breeding or as food.

Being food - for the soul

This title is likely not gonna read for any google searches, but that is what I mean.

The other I noticed how little I am actually eating and working with the chickens and in the garden has made my body thinner and stronger.

While I have not really had much of any food at regular meals on an ongoing basis for years (I would be fairly inexpensive to have as a house guest that way :),  I do frequently now find myself asking for meal leftovers from others and meal prep kitchen compost - for the birds. Friends of mine make special town trips to get greens from stores or restaurants for their chickens.  This I cannot do, but I now do understand why they do it. It is actually recommended as part of healthy nutrition if you can't truly free range, for the making of compost and vermi-bins and such. And there seems to be something else that is worth noting:

The chicks are 8 weeks old today, and they still get their chicks starter crumbles, but for some reason, they leave that in a heartbeat if really veggie stuff is available. The seem to LOOOOVE the real foods. And I notice I love giving it to them and that there is real food for me when I see them eating yummy kitchen vegetable stuff - and I am so happy to share what I do have with them. Their happy sounds are food for my body and soul.

And  I realized the other day that I am being fed, though not through organic food,  when I feed them good stuff and they are happy and well fed. It is Being-food, and it does feel like a substance to me. I am happy when they are and it is food for my soul -  "being-food". I am sure a lot of you have experienced something similar, maybe with your child. This "being-food" is worth more to me than an organic meal.

I know they are "just" chickens - and - caring for them provides being-food  -  could be you only get that when you stop seeing them as "just" chickens. -

They are a living part of who you are, on all levels - and so are the veggies - but that is another story.

Building the chicken coop - things to consider

At this point, here is what I have to say about chicken coops if you build from scratch:

Give it 4-5 square feet per bird and then add some more because you will get more chickens.
Ventilation ventilation ventilation - without it being drafty.
Make sure the roof extends far enough out so it does not rain in.
If you build from scratch -  use cement blocks 2 feet deep at the bottom and the deep litter method
Make sure your coop is absolutely pretator proof, this includes against weasels and diggers.
For wire, use hardware cloth.
Don't put stuff along the edges of have spaces rodents can hide.
Nest boxes off the floor gives the birds more floor space. slant the roof.
Make the roost higher than the nest boxes.
Make a safe covered outdoor run.
If you plan to do gardening - consider letting the chickens out in section, rotating so plan ahead on where you build.
Shade is good.
Don't use cedar.
Allow for option to partition into a main coop and rooster section with separate exists into separate outdoor areas,  and a broody section if you ever intend to raise your own. If you have young birds, it helps to have another section for them.
Have a way to separate a sick looking bird.

Getting help with building the chicken coop Easter weekend April 2012. And more videos about chickens and gardening here 


 

Chickens can change your World - HCCML 3

... and so can anything you love enough - or that has touched you deeply enough.

Having fun, doing what you love is compatible with respecting the earth and it's beings!

So, they (them chickens) got me writing again. Why am I doing this? - This writing about this particular topic  - again ? Because I had some inspiration earlier this morning, as in an entire post in my head, and now I can't quite remember but started to write anyway in case it all comes back to me.

I think part of wanting to write again about why I am going this is because I have not yet internally solved (ie accepted) this dilemma of the general unconsciousness of humans and what they do to this planet and each other. I still believe that humans can wake up and start caring and stop abusing ....  if only enough would --- or that at least those in power could and steer it all with true knowing and compassion and without GMO foods and mega pollution. I still envision a world in which humans live in harmony with nature. At least get your life and the animals close to you on track of health and happiness.

So here I am doing this chicken gardening project and there are some very practical reasons why -  which most people can understand or value and which can change their world & perception.

• get chicken help providing fertilizer and tilling help in a vegetable garden.
• making sustainable use of land, which I do not own, that is otherwise just laying there unused.
• getting the best eggs - and proven more nutritious than any supermarket egg can ever be - healthy food for you and your family.
• learning about what it really takes to provide for your own food - at least some of it.

I am learning more and more how big money has used and misused large sections of land and people,
to walk my talk the best I can - but at least being consistent.
Keeping chickens for you  might be a means to get your children in touch with animals - to get to know them so they may have a change to love them - to make them aware that eggs do not grow in the store and maybe even that hot dogs were made from tortured animals in most cases.

Inspire others to become not only more aware, but take action where they live.

and THERE is is beginning to touch on the first point again - inspire others, help folks to wake up just a bit more and feel empowered to change their own life and world towards health and happiness to include the living earth - wake just a bit more from where they are.

I have seen what others do both online and in person. A lot of people do a lot of good - but when you look at what is happening to the planet - many more need to come on board, many more need to start taking action to the best of their ability - locally. Think, feel and connect globally - act locally.

I got raised roman catholic and I (sort of) remember this parable: the master had to go out of town and he gave his servants money to work. One got 1 dinar, one got 5 and the other one got 10. When he came back, the one with 10 dinar came to him and gave him back 20, the one with 5 dinars gave him back 10 - and the one with 1 dinar gave him back 1. So the master asked what happened: and the servant said he buried it to keep it safe but didn't use it to prosper.
So ...ehm - I don't know what the master did ...but the message was: you MUST use what you have and what god gave you. By this are meant your talents and means. Those who are given much, return much, and those who are given little, return little - BUT ALL ARE CALLED to use what they are given and double it and prosper. So for me this means: DO WHAT YOU CAN WHERE YOU ARE with the means available to you to the degree you can take it today. Burying things is like this: Albert Einstein. “The world is a dangerouss place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”

Or, to speak with gxaaxx: "Just say no to apathy". 

Have you ever considered that you are depressed or angry because your are NOT doing what you are supposed to do? Because your scope does not include your love, your purpose for being here?


Find the passion which opens your heart. Ask the universe/God with all you have to show you what that is - if you don't know it already - and give it a few weeks, never forgetting what you asked for - and be prepared to give it all you got when it is shown to you.


Some say if you do what you love that is wnough - I say: do what you love for the benefit of all beings everywhere.
It adds a twist to do what you love that is needed by the world.

It is not enough anymore to just do for yourself. If you read this, you got the means - even if you only got 1 dinar. The whole world is available to you via the internet. You can do something - find out what - and it does not cost you any money either.

I happen to love nature, dogs and birds especially, and trees and plants and  ....don't get me started :). I love other things too, but it is different.

So there are lots of folks loving other things, but let us just stay with those who have a bit of conscience and consideration or who consider themselves on a spiritual path and those who are wanting to awaken.

Awakening happens in stages for most folks, it includes the mind heart and body and willingness, drive  - your soul has to actually want to. You can push the river there - but - you never know who you can reach with what you do - and a tiny shift in this Universe may have huge consequences elsewhere, even if you never know it.

So if you open your heart - and you can do this by watching a number of videos about what happens in commercial animal food production and allowing to feel that pain -  you know your heart is open when you FEEL - so open you heart and then get your mind involved to check out the truth and numbers and environmental impact your supermarket egg production have on the earth and your health and your wallet (hint: taxpayer subvention) for example. ...


I guess the question is: at what point will you change what you do? At what point are you awake enough to not be happy and fooled or satisfied with pretty pictures alone? At what point do you feel enough to not want to just go along but find passion which also contributes to well being the earth - What will it take to want to leave a world for your grandchildren that can still be inhabited?

At what point is it not just about YOUR better life and health, or YOUR family's property and vacation - but at which point do you care enough to include the larger you in who you are?

Because, between spiritual realization and scientific discoveries - we ARE all connected - it is all one.

Now is that what had popped into my head earlier? No, but I'll work with it.

Water and our dependency on electricty

scary - more soon

The importance of water - and chicken ignorance?

One day old chicks at the waterer

This is a somewhat comic one. I was reading in the one book I can recommend without any hesitation that speak about keeping chickens: the small scale poultry flock. In there Harvey U. talk about the importance of water for your chickens - and to make it available where they actually are needing it. He gives the example of cornish hens who would rather DIE than walk 10 feet  to water that is sitting in the sun.

So I believed him and I have water in the 3 areas the chickens can spend their time. I observe where they actually DO drink, and change the location if they never go there or if there is no water missing after several hours. I did also notice, when they were 4 weeks old and we had a real hot spell,  that they were laying panting in the heat of the afternoon. I sat in the coop/shade and decided to feed them water with a dropper. I say their learning process and also, many of them seemed to love taking the water from a dropper. .....  even as they were standing right next to the water. Some also started drinking after getting a taste of the water from the dropper. Not sure what it is about their thirst mechanism -  and that is so I don't say that chickens are water-supply stupid or lazy :). Maybe it is some kind of thing where only the one with the strongest drive are meant to make it in case of a drought? Who knows, but whatever the reason, there is something to be said about keeping very vigilant to provide water where it is needed at all time. Nat only do chickens drink a lot - they also need to have water in pretty close proximity of where they are being kept.The special attention on drinking and available water did bring home something else too.

Observation is the key - HCCML-2

Observation - you can learn so much just be observation. For example: for 2 weeks now the chickens have been happy in the greenhouse run and never bothered to go to the door or tried to follow me. However, in the last 2 days, and they are 5 weeks today, they seem interested in following me out  of that space. Luckily I planned the next enclosure and started working on it, though there is quite a bit more to do. Coincidentally, they are growing into the needed size not to so easily fit through the fence which is going to be out there. In fact, I am gonna try to stretch it for another week.

The point is, observe and listen - it might tell you more than any verbal explanation ever can. Because, let's face it, all generalized information might not precisely apply to you and your flock. But your flock will tell you when it is time.

Bald spots underneath - you can see it in certain movements

Another point for observation: for the past few days, the chicks look pretty much fully feathered, but when I get a look underneath the outer layer of feathers, I can see bold spots, like on the neck and some under the wings. At first I only saw it on 1 chick, but now it is many of them. It seems that the baby feathers fall out before all the others are in. Since they get chick starter, worms, eggs and greens, I seriously doubt that is it nutritional. The reason I mention it is because I read on a blog post, where someone asked if his 4 week old chicks can go outside (it was COLD out there) and he sent pictures of his chicks - they looked like mine, miniature fully feathered chicks - but - when you observe them move - the bald spots shine through. LOOK underneath - and you'll see the bald spots. I cringe when he was told they are ready to go out there ...and out of the brooder/coop they were gonna get thrown. It could be that the cold exposure will speed up the feathering out process, but chicks that age can also still easily die from exposure.

It all just confirms: look and listen, observe and trust your intuition to do the right thing for your chicks, no matter what anyone tells you. learn from the best  and even then, how do you know "they" know better? Just like any other path, do your due diligence, verify for yourself.

How has that changed my like? I don't know, only that I need to spend time observing - and that, because I want to do what is best for them, I will take that time. And here is where you realize an inner strength which no one can take away from you. You do the best you can for your chickens, and to do that, you spend time with them, you observe them. There is no substitute for that. In fact, I am now convinced that had I looked more closely on day 2 and 3, I would have caught the pasting earlier and the runt Fayoumi would not have died. Can you do that as a farmer who has hundreds of chickens? I don't know - but that is that farmer's life :). Maybe his chickens are giving him/her other lessons .....